Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 30, 2010, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mip

Do people ever realize how badly making Armbraces untradable would affect the High End market? High End traders would start raging and we would get a new thread of hate against Arenanet for changing it.

Not that I have any Armbraces as currency, but there are traders that have hundreds of them and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy at all.

We are only talking about it in the context of many players defending eliteism by using the excuse of the prestige and accomplishment of gaining these items. If that is a reason to continue to exclude players from specific areas of the game, then that is where the non-tradablilty of the items comes in to play.

We already know is is an invalid argument and that it is simply greed that is the root of the exclusivity argument, as your post points out. But of course no-one wants to attempt to use that as an argument for exclusivity because it's not really valid either.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 30, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Discrimination is still discrimination, which is one of the reasons for the UB nerf. There was rank discrimination, though it was one of the only things that got people to PUG again when the vast majority of players complained that PUGging was dead. The issue I have with this statement is that, first, not everyone would want to leave their current guild just to find one that can successfully run an Elite Area. If these guilds will take non-members along, then that's fine, but if part of the requirement is being in the guild with a specific build, then that's discrimination. Second, not everyone likes to play every profession, and as noted above, more often than not, you need a specific gimmick to beat a specific area. Telling someone to roll a new character and then complete the entire campaign again with that character just to attempt the elite area is a poor recommendation and poor game design.

Of course we also take non-guildies, but that's usually only if there aren't enough guildies interested in DoA at the time, and non-guildies usually means scrolling down your friendlist untill you find someone.. We usually can't be bothered with ally's since our alliance DoA experience generally means exp = frostway.. We got some ally friends we know are good and sometimes take them too.. Although we actually one took some random UA on a run, and it was pretty damn funny xD We actually finished

I get why people would rather not leave their guild just to do DoA, but if that means having to do DwG, then that's their choice imo..

Mcsnake85 · Dec 30, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

We dont need 13 pages to say things how they are : ppl want nerf because they dont want other ppl do elite areas, get rich like them..thats all...
Some ppl have farmed for 5 ages, and now they have 10000000 ambrance, in last 2 years i saw ambace dropping from 50e to 19e [now they are 21/23]...lets suppose that mister X have 1000 ambrace, so 1000a x 50e/each is = 50000 ectos,NOW with DWG teambuild all are able to farm,so all get easy ambrance and pice market is 23e = 1000a x 23e = 23000 that mean a lost of 27000 ectos O.o.
Nothing more to add,thats all folks.
[PS: thanks to Anet that balance the game and give to all the opportunity to get some nice skin Items]

Xiaquin · Dec 30, 2010, 07:27 PM // 19:27

The mystery to me is why Armbraces weren't locked down after the duping incident (bug exploit). I wasn't there, only read of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I get why people would rather not leave their guild just to do DoA, but if that means having to do DwG, then that's their choice imo..

That doesn't sound like much of a choice at all, which is the problem. Half or more of Glaiveway loads ritualist builds, there doesn't seem to be much else other than backline.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 30, 2010, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

The mystery to me is why Armbraces weren't locked down after the duping incident (bug exploit). I wasn't there, only read of it.

That doesn't sound like much of a choice at all, which is the problem. Half or more of Glaiveway loads ritualist builds, there doesn't seem to be much else other than backline.

I was there at the dupe lol, it was epic, I remember people selling duped armbraces 10k/ea, getting banned 5min later...

And I think you got me wrong.. If there are people that want to do DoASC but don't want to join a DoASC guild because they don't want to leave their guild, and that means they have to do PUG DwG for DoA, or even guild DwG, that's their choice..

watrah · Jan 03, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

return back old days, I didn't have the chance to do Ursan and u can nerfet again after I get my Armbraces

/notsigned

/signed(need Ursan back)

Just Sai · Jan 03, 2011, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway

Lemme guess... you are a warrior and nobody want's you in their group... Daddy daddy the other kids won't play with me QQ

exactly what i was thinking

show up another way for random pugs to do it with some consistent percentile of success and i may reconsider my stance.

as for this last page, do you guys really believe anyone's gonna read those novels of diatribe

waay too much time on ur hands

Simath · Jan 03, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

want nerf because they dont want other ppl do elite areas, get rich like them..thats all...

That's a bullshit argument that's been thrown around for years, and most users on the forum have come to recognize its ridiculousness.

Quote:

Some ppl have farmed for 5 ages, and now they have 10000000 ambrance, in last 2 years i saw ambace dropping from 50e to 19e [now they are 21/23]...lets suppose that mister X have 1000 ambrace, so 1000a x 50e/each is = 50000 ectos,NOW with DWG teambuild all are able to farm,so all get easy ambrance and pice market is 23e = 1000a x 23e = 23000 that mean a lost of 27000 ectos O.o.
Nothing more to add,thats all folks.

I'm glad things are so clear for you.

Quote:

[PS: thanks to Anet that balance the game and give to all the opportunity to get some nice skin Items]

You do realize that you're applauding the exact cause for the downfall of PvE, right? Pat yourself on the back. Also, you may want to do some research on what exactly balance is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by watrah

return back old days, I didn't have the chance to do Ursan and u can nerfet again after I get my Armbraces

/notsigned

/signed(need Ursan back)

Why would you need a chance to do Ursan to get Armbraces?

Bright Star Shine · Jan 04, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by watrah

return back old days, I didn't have the chance to do Ursan and u can nerfet again after I get my Armbraces

/notsigned

/signed(need Ursan back)

[sarcasm]Lol? That's the greatest idea I've seen here so far, let's bring Ursan back, because 1 person hasn't had the joy of playing it.[/sarcasm]

I was there at the time, I did everything Ursanway, just like everyone, trust me, it was a faceroll, nothing more, nothing less. Activate skill one, and depending on your profession you could actually stay Ursan permanently. Skill chain? 1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-... No Ursan, noty, it was even a worse gimmick than DwG is now, only difference, it was faster and better...

And, too lazy to quote, but see above post DoA hasn't been around for 5 years, I'd suggest you do some research before posting stuff like that. DoA was added either end 2006 or start 2007, can't recall correctly. It wasn't in NF from the start, but mkey, it was after a month or so... And, people who did DoA back then were making money, trust me, there was a time Titans were 100k+xx e/ea lol. That only lasted for like a week, but armbraces were 100e++ at the first introduction of DoA, and q9 Elemental Swords were 250e+ at the start of NF too lol, things change..

For the fifth time or something, nerf DwG and buff something else so that there can be made a balanced way that is doable for PUGs (although making a balanced way should be perfectly possible now already, critscythe ftw? On a sidenote, that would cause trouble in Gloom HM, but Manlyway held the record for quite a while, so I guess that shouldn't pose too much of a problem) People just have to be more creative.. All this whining about making the game accessible to everyone, pro and noob is bullshit.. Where are the times that we had to be creative to get what we wanted? Where we had to work hard and do some effort to do it.. Ok, creativity is still needed sometimes, or new ideas just pop up, but it isn't like it was..
I vote /reset game back to 2005

(j/k^^)

Corpus Vitalis · Jan 04, 2011, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I actually heard about a team build that is used in UW almost the same as Glaiveway AKA Frostway, but didn't actually get to see the builds. It would be interesting though, have a few terras to pop the reapers and tele around nuking stuff...

Bright Star Shine · Jan 04, 2011, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corpus Vitalis

I actually heard about a team build that is used in UW almost the same as Glaiveway AKA Frostway, but didn't actually get to see the builds. It would be interesting though, have a few terras to pop the reapers and tele around nuking stuff...

Huh? Why would you have inferior Ritualists going around in UW trying to nuke stuff that a ssin can do in 1/4 of the time they do it with 100x the survivability?
DwG isn't needed in UW, because it's so inferior to builds that PUGs already use. The only reason DwG got so popular was because there was no other way to do DoA with a PUG team before. Because DoA is too hard to PUG. If there was a balanced way to do it, and PUGs would be using that, and someone goes "Hey, let's mosh our way through DoA like we did 3y ago with Ursan again, but now in almost double the time" people would tell him to get help, because that would be a retarded idea...

Actually, I'm gonna go theorycraft some, and gonna try to get a possible balanced way on it's feet. Gimme some time though, cause I gotta take a lot into account..

Mcsnake85 · Jan 04, 2011, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

That's a bullshit argument that's been thrown around for years, and most users on the forum have come to recognize its ridiculousness.

I dont know if ppl are discussing it for ages,but it is not a bullshit it is the truth hidden on something else.
Ppl love to be unique, to have something that no one have,they like show rare things to ppl and know that they cant efford them.
When something make the way open to let all ppl get that items they start cry,they want block all or they lost the "elite" status,the "im unique" or "Im the only one with that Item"....This thing work in every game on the earth,GW is not an exception.

Prove me im wrong.

HigherMinion · Jan 04, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Rits have spirits and DwG. Only problem is both of those things can be used by /Rt.

^tie all spirits and dwg to Spawning.

Simath · Jan 04, 2011, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

I dont know if ppl are discussing it for ages,but it is not a bullshit it is the truth hidden on something else.
Ppl love to be unique, to have something that no one have,they like show rare things to ppl and know that they cant efford them.
When something make the way open to let all ppl get that items they start cry,they want block all or they lost the "elite" status,the "im unique" or "Im the only one with that Item"....This thing work in every game on the earth,GW is not an exception.

Prove me im wrong.

Please, spare me your nonsense. You are taking an attribute that can be defined over a finite set of people and turning it into a generalization.

Allow me to do the same.

The only people who want DwG and other gimmicks to exist in this game are those who want everything handed to them. They do not want to employ strategy to overcome challenges, but instead they would rather button-mash their way to success. They want to take the easy way out by exploiting overpowered skills that were poorly implemented in order to avoid any possible hardship.

See, two can play at that game.

noughtyous · Jan 04, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

/not signed
DWG is an easy means to make DoA a social experience for people dependent on PUGs.
There are much faster 'ways' to do DoA for the pro's, no need to nerf those ways either.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 04, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

The only people who want DwG and other gimmicks to exist in this game are those who want everything handed to them. They do not want to employ strategy to overcome challenges, but instead they would rather button-mash their way to success. They want to take the easy way out by exploiting overpowered skills that were poorly implemented in order to avoid any possible hardship.

You sir, just made me happy.

All this bitching that SF is a gimmick too was correct back when UWSC was 7min.. Times have changed, ok, you can still easily pull off most Elite-end game with SF, but you'll need some skill, practice and experience for it. You can't just leeroy your way through DoA..

All this "but DoA was dead before" is bullshit too.. PUG DoA was dead, why? Because PUGs had to think and show skill for once, but they can't, we all know that. And that's what makes Elite end-game a gimmick.

Conclusion, again: PUGs are shit, have always been, will always be. The most they can pull off is "durr 1-2-3-4-5" and hope they don't die.

In my opinion, people complaining that the game is too hard, because they can't do everything from the first try, shouldn't be playing it at all. Show some dignity and pride, and at least do some effort, show tactics, try to do it properly.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 04, 2011, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

[sarcasm]For the fifth time or something, nerf DwG and buff something else so that there can be made a balanced way that is doable for PUGs (although making a balanced way should be perfectly possible now already, critscythe ftw? On a sidenote, that would cause trouble in Gloom HM, but Manlyway held the record for quite a while, so I guess that shouldn't pose too much of a problem) People just have to be more creative.. All this whining about making the game accessible to everyone, pro and noob is bullshit.. Where are the times that we had to be creative to get what we wanted? Where we had to work hard and do some effort to do it.. Ok, creativity is still needed sometimes, or new ideas just pop up, but it isn't like it was..
I vote /reset game back to 2005

(j/k^^)

The problem with buffing is what many other people have said here. You will end up creating more OPed gimmick builds and skills like UB and DwG. As I said before, the main problem we face are the design of the areas themselves, based on core mechanics that hadn't factored difficult areas like these when created. The Elites need to be redesigned to be more accommodating to other builds and team formations.

As for those good old days you speak of ... they are long since gone. Pick up any gaming publication and you will see articles and interviews with devs about making their games more casual friendly and accessible. The times have changed and the industry is changing with it. Many people have no desire to "work" or spend 3-4 straight hours when immersed in a genre that is supposed to be about fun and relaxation. The fact that the Sims is the best selling game franchise of all time should tell you something. Casual is in - hardcore is dying and relegated to small niches. Ultimately, providing accessibility and options to gamers of all skill levels is what will rule the day.

Xiaquin · Jan 04, 2011, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Rits have spirits and DwG. Only problem is both of those things can be used by /Rt.

^tie all spirits and dwg to Spawning.

That would just make everyone roll rit, doesn't bring any of the power creep down to earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

All this bitching that SF is a gimmick too was correct back when UWSC was 7min.. Times have changed, ok, you can still easily pull off most Elite-end game with SF, but you'll need some skill, practice and experience for it. You can't just leeroy your way through DoA..

It might not be a gimmick like it used to, but it's still ridiculous. The other day the Zaishen bounty ran through Ooze Pit. I've never really bothered with HM dungeons so I threw together a decent build and checked out the pug scene. Four groups were sitting around waiting for healers while a sin was offering a full run done in 10 minutes. /sighquit

impulsion · Jan 05, 2011, 12:16 AM // 00:16

/notsigned armbrace price has levelled, it's not THAT much lower than before it just seems like it because ectos are worth a lot more now

24 * 8.5k = 204k - Now
48 * 4.8k = 230.4k - Before

DwG is pro

UnChosen · Jan 05, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

It might not be a gimmick like it used to, but it's still ridiculous. The other day the Zaishen bounty ran through Ooze Pit. I've never really bothered with HM dungeons so I threw together a decent build and checked out the pug scene. Four groups were sitting around waiting for healers while a sin was offering a full run done in 10 minutes. /sighquit

If Anet can't/won't make areas doable by the common pugs or average player using an average hero team then they had better keep the runners. The fact that there are 4 groups waiting for a healers had nothing to do with the sin and everything to do with lack of players, which is indirectly caused by the utterly crap reward that people get from dungeons for the time/effort it takes to complete them. 2 hours with a pug and the only decent reward is a chest "lottery"? What a joke.

Eventually they need to make DoA NM and other elite areas (NM) easy enough to be completable by heroes because there won't be enough pugs nor guilds left regardless if there's any "overpowered" gimmick builds. I wager this is exactly why 7 heroes is now being considered by Anet.

/Not Signed